Specifications
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Sundance Cameo, The highest
priced model this size in their highest end
series.
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Haven Fallriver Gold
The highest priced model similar size to Cameo, in our
"low end spas"
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Comparative Comment
The Fallriver is roomier and more open. It feels a lot
bigger than the Cameo. The Fallriver design is for
humans to sit in comfortably, without confining seats
and confusing detrimental controls. Haven Spas are much
easier to use. Full sized jets in the Fallriver seat
backs. Too many bullet jets
in the Cameo. The Fallriver is a workhorse with a
thick strong shell, designed to look good on the inside and
outside. Our spas are designed to last 25 years with
at least 10 years of trouble free operation, before you need
any repairs.
The "modern" Cameo is a faint gost of the original
spas. (The company has been bought and sold twice and
it ain't pretty what happend. )
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| Size inches |
89x89x37.5 |
92x92x38
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Fallriver is larger more
room. Cleaner, larger foot well with extremely powerful
master massage jets. No tiny jets in the backs of the seats.
With much stronger construction and amazing neck and
shoulder blaster collar. Sundance has no above water neck
jets that are wonderful.
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Dry Weight
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Sundance Cameo 861 LB
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Haven Fallriver 1010 LB
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Fallriver is larger and
weighs more even though it is not stuffed with foam to hold
it together.
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Cabinet Construction
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2x2 frames, stuffed with foam
in the Sundance Cameo to keep it from falling down.
The bottom of the shell is supported by cut PVC pipe and so
are the seats. This is by far the cheapest way to make a
fiberglass backed shell as thin as you possibly can. The
cabinet "skirt" is cheap thin plastic. The equipment
compartment on Sundance is vented so it wastes a lot of
energy.
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The shell is much stronger,
thicker and heavier, on the Fallriver and the frames can
support up to 40,000 LB of load.
There are 12 vertical 2x4 house framing lumber. The entire
bottom is also framed in pressure treated lumber 2x6 . The
shell is properly made to support water. Water weighs
8.33 LB per gallon, so it is 3,665 LB of water. Think about
it!
The cabinet skirt on Haven Spas is 3/4 of an inch thick
laminated wood with extreme, 15 year coatings. The cabinets
are sealed shut air tight.
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The construction of the
Haven Spas is superior to any brand of spas made
today. Haven Spas
Engineering and construction has no competition.
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Insulation
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30 Year old antique Full Foam
in the Sundance Cameo with huge vents that waste
energy. One of the cheapest way to insulate there is.
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Modern Thermal
Closed insulation with warm air barrier insulation.
Closed cabinet that recycles the energy back into the spa
water. We seal the cabinet with rubber seals, like a freezer
to stop all warm air from exiting the cabinet
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The insulation used on
Sundance is a joke in this day and age. Haven Spas Insulation
We have the documented lowest energy consumption of any spa.
We guarantee 4.5 KWH/day in standby ambient 50 degrees or
less year round average use of the spa. That is less than
1/3 the cost for electricity over the Sundance.
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Filled weight
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4572 LB
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4704 LB
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Water Capacity (avg. fill)
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445
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440
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Sundance Cameo is about the
same. The Fallriver has more defined seating that
varies from super deep to high for cooler seating. The
lounge is better in the Fallriver for anti flotation,
because of the ergonomics of the shape and the water depth
maximum of 23 inches. Haven Spas are noted for having
the best anti floating
lounges.
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Water Pump
(Water Delivery)
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2 ea. ONE SPEED "TheraMax"
2-inch intake and 2 inch outlets. Old fashioned restrictive
suctions. (No water flow PSI specifications.
From research it is 160 GPM at 17 PSI. Please correct this
if you know.) List price $421.42
Total water flow ; 320 Gallons per minute, and the
heat energy is wasted out the vents.
The Cameo uses diverter valves
to fool people into thinking they have therapy.
Read testimonial
Read all the Testimonials
More Testimonials
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2 ea. TWO SPEED , WW 3 HP
Executive with 2.5 inch intake and 2 inch out lets.
Water Flow at 170 each pump GPM at 17 PSI. List price
$654.50 and each.
Plus 1 each one
speed 3 HP for the
twin Master Jets. 160 GPM List $527.66
Total water flow available; 500 Gallons per minute.
That is real therapy. And the heat energy is put back in the
water.
Read About our Haven
Plumbing
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The Fallriver has higher
quality equipment with better more well known motors for
longevity. And the Fallriver has larger way oversized,
super clean "suction side" plumbing for better water flow
and pressure curve than the "Thera Max" pumps. The
Cameo has single speed water pumps, so the owners do not
have the ability to have low speed light therapy.
There are 6 levels of intensity of therapy in the Haven Spas
with just the speeds of the jet pumps and the use of air and
turbo air. In the Cameo,
there is two levels. ( Considering how expensive the Cameo
is, why would anybody buy one over the Fallriver?)
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Therapy Pump Ratings:
Pump 1
Pump 2
Pump 3
Circ Pump
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1- speed 2.5 HP Continuous
1-speed 2.5 HP Continuous
NONE
1/15 HP 48 frame?
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2-speed 3.0 HP Continuous
4 BHP
2-speed 3.0 HP Continuous, 4 BHP
1 speed, 3 HP Continuous.
4 BHP for twin Power Foot Massage Jets
Pump One on low speed does the filtering, ozone and heating.
Does double duty as both circ pump and therapy pump.
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More HP using the same amps
with the Haven, according to research. Special
controls to run the three jet pumps plus blower and lights.
The Haven control system adjusts the total amps as use
conditions change. Sundance
uses 48 frame motors and Haven uses 56 frame motors by
a much higher quality motor manufacture.
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Total Water Jets
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39
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39 + Two Master Massage
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Sundance uses "exclusive
jets" that do not have bearings, so they don't have an
rotating large jets at all. They are the only company
that does not offer rotating large jets. It is for
economic, cheap, reasons and not having to deal with
bearings. Haven Jet Bearings work just fine and give a
far superior massage that pulses and rotates.
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Above Water Neck and Shoulder
Jets
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ZERO NADA ZILCH
NONE Nothing.
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4 MEDIUM ADJUSTABLE
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Sundance lacks the ability to
vacuum form with "reverse molding", and no possible above
water jets or "neck collar" that gives that deep upper
muscle massage. It simply costs more to have a human
being to operate the reverse molding blocks. (hint it
is all about hype, sales, money and not about building a
good spa.)
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Leg Jets In the Lounger
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Looks like four air jets
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Six Water and four air jets
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Obviously we think more in
terms of actual therapy in our products. It is because
the designer of Haven, likes leg massage. Because of the
anti float of our lounges, along with the air and water
jets, we get full leg massage and very little
floating. The air breaks up the water buoyancy in
Haven Spas.
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Captains Chair Therapy
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There is no "Captains Chair"
in the Sundance cameo. Looks like four medium jets and two
upper jets in one seat with two air injectors. The other
seat has a bunch of tiny bullet
jets jets.
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10 water jets. We Have 4
large full size spinning and pulsatign jets, 2 Medium, with
the 4 neck and shoulder jets. There is no
comparison with this seat.
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The "Captain's Chair" is the
number one hot seat in all of our models. It is
designed with the maximum water flow to achieve powerful jet
therapy. There is always an array of three jets across
the upper shoulder area and mid back plus lower back
jets. Plus the pumps run on 6 different levels of
therapy with the Low speed, High Speed, Along turbo air on
low speed or high speed. Sundance does not have "turbo air"
And it does not have two speed jet pumps.
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Six Jet Seat
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Sundance has a seat with a
bunch of cheap small jets and
bullet jets, and they give it a fancy name. Most
humans after testing the Haven Spas seem to dislike that
seat, and prefer real jets on the back.
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Two upper medium poly storm
jets jets and two mini storm jets, then two medium
poly storm jets a the bottom. This "six jet seat" is
common throughout the Haven Line of spas because it gives
superior therapy and you can pivot to get good side therapy
and hip therapy. No bullet jets in the six jet seat.
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The Haven Fallriver is
superior in all ways to the Cameo in therapy and in jet use.
The Cameo uses a lot of sales hype to sell a bunch of
small jets. Whenever you see a full page in a brochure
dedicated to a design feature, in a spa brochure, you can
rest assured that it is B.S. and they are "selling you
on something that is really cheap" or is some "exclusive
thing" they do.
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Whirlpool Jets
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5 each, medium orifice.
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We don't like whirlpool jets
on feet or up on the wall where they do no good, so we don't
use them. It is a good jet for a lower back, so we use
it in the "power jet" in our SE and Super Custom, but only
on the lower back. ( We did a survey of our hot tub owner's
and asked them what jets they don't use much. 80% said
the "whirlpool". So we took them off the Haven Spas.) You
can get an optional "Power Jet" in the lower back of the
captains chair for additional money.
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Whirlpool jets are not very
expensive to buy and install. They have no moving
parts and are not adjustable. The Whirlpool idea was
touted in the 1950's and 1960's as the latest technology for
bath tubs. Hmm?
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Master Massage Jets
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Sundance has no Master
Massage jets, because they use a cheaper brand of jets.
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Two Huge Master Massage jets
with a total of 28 jet orifices outlets. Each jet runs
at 80 GPM (gallons per minute)
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The twin Master Massage jets
are the best foot and leg jet therapy that I have ever
experienced. This is one of the reasons why Haven Spas have
never lost a wet test against the Cameo. We have
dropped the use of other jets (Volcano, and
Whirlpool), because they just don't do the job.
The Master Massage jets are optional, but if we are trying
to compare the Cameo to one of our products, in features and
price we put the option on to bring our price up to still
destroys the Cameo in a wet test.
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Air Jets or Air Injectors
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14 air injectors only
1.5 HP air pump. This is built in to the spa cabinet and is
fairly difficult to access for repairs. There really
is no blower but a blower motor mounted in side a chamber.
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We are only using the Turbo
Air on this model, because it is the feature that all people
want when they test our Haven Spas and do comparisons.
Our turbo air blower is extremely quiet because of our sound
proofing of the latest cabinets.
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The Cameo does not take
advantage of modern air therapy. They use the blower
"sort of". Haven places the air power into the water
jets, strategically to give a pulsating massage up
your back in the seats, and full power to the leg a jets
with turbo air to the leg jets. This is SO MUCH BETTER!
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Exclusive Parts
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All of the Sundance parts are
exclusive and overpriced for no reason other than making
more money.
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All the Haven Parts are not
exclusive and are better made parts all the way around.
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Whenever a spa company
contracts with a jet company for parts, they get them
cheap. Whoever gets the bid, is going to cut the parts
as much as they can to try and get a small profit.
That is why the diverter and air control handles on
Sundance are so cheap, and the jets are so cheaply
made. The standard quality parts cost more and are
readily available at decent prices.
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Diverter Valves
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Sundance Has Diverter Disease. They
have two of them. One on each pump. Finally they
figured out to allow other jets to run and not put the
diverter as the only thing the jet pumps "see".
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We know that using Diverters,
diminishes the function of the spa.
Who the heck wants to wait for
jets, or to have only part of the seat function?
We plumb the jet pumps to match the jets and use better
pumps.
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Diverter Valves used directly
on the pump outlets are bad, very very bad and are a way to
fool people. When you walk into a spa store and see
spas with 39 jets, but you can't run all of them at the same
time, get OUT OF THE STORE and head over to our web site and
to our Haven Spa store, where you can get a real hot tub,
with out the nonsense.
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Control Boxes
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Aluminum
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Metal Steel or Aluminum,
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We use metal aluminum
or steel and we do not use exclusive parts, so that
when time comes to repair, you save on parts. Plus the
control system is stronger in the Haven. We use larger relays to run
all the higher amp equipment.
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Filter
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MicroClean II filtration
system.
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Standard not exclusive filter
cartridge and filter parts.
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Sundance ties to sell you on
expensive filters that are a waste of time. If you
take care of your water you don't need to have any special
filters. They want you on a system that costs about 6
times what you need to pay.
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Lighting
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Two LED lights standard
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Two LED lights standard.
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One in the light lens and one
in the waterfall.
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Filter Lid
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Sundance has a loose filter
lid.
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We have no loose filter lids
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I hate loose filter lids, because of
dealing with them.. It is ridiculous to have them on a
portable spa.
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Head Rests
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Three
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Three
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We like head rests.
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Stereo
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Optional $1400 for pop
up speakers.
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Optional $1245 for 4
Pop up speakers are with sub woofer and ipod iphone
direct bay and waterproof remote.
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Like everything else on
Sundance too much money for too little.
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Electrical Requirements
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60 HZ 30 A, 50A, or 60A
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60 HZ 50/60 AMPs
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The Haven Fallriver Gold is a
stronger therapy machine with more expensive equipment.
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Seats
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5 to 6 Adults.
The top rail is impossible to set up on the edge of the
shell to get out of the water and cool off. The filter lid
is not capable of using as a seat and it is dangerous.
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Seats 5 to 6 Adults with more
room.
On Haven Spas we have larger upper flat areas on the top
edge of the shell, so you can set up out of the water
comfortably to cool down or just set there and have a chat.
Witout the loose filter lid you can set over the filter area
very nicely. This is a feature most spas do not have.
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The foot well in the
Fallriver is larger and better for comfort. The whole
Fallriver spa is bigger and still costs less..
The filter housing on Sundance is huge and wastes a lot of
space.
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MSRP
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$15,999
Sale price after car dealership type of negotiation.
$12,560
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$16,670
Our everyday Sale price;
$12,988
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The Fallriver Gold is
about 2x more spa for a little more money. (Hint. If the
Cameo is sold for 10 k the Fallriver is worth 20K) Better
made, stronger cabinet, stronger motors, stronger control
system, better made shell. The Fallriver is in our
Standard spas and the Cameo is in the "highest end" of
Sundance. There is your Clue. We only have smart
shopper buy Haven Spas.
(Please don't compare our SC or SE or Paramount or Vista
spas against this lower quality product.)
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